Primecoin Prerelease

[Sunny King]

I have announced prerelease for primecoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=245953.0

Since this might have been a surprise to our supporters, I am available here to answer questions related to primecoin/ppcoin and our future strategies.

[calian]

While I'm glad you can see that the low energy cryptocurrency is the ultimate direction things will likely go this is somewhat concerning for holders of PPC in regards to the splitting of your time and attention. However perhaps this fear is unfounded as you have already been assisting with the development of Terracoin, Novacoin, Bitbar and perhaps others I am unaware of. However in this case you are the lead developer for this new paradigm and it will doubtless consume more of your energy. Is it possible to PM you via this forum or bitcointalk?

[Sentinelrv]

For those people who are concerned, I picked out two points in the text that seem important. While I don't fully understand it all, I'm sure Sunny knows what he's doing here.
 

- Cryptocurrency market has now split into two sectors, energy intensive sector and energy efficient sector. In the longer term (5+ years) I believe the energy efficient sector would begin to challenge the energy intensive sector due to its cost advantage. In the shorter term though energy intensive market would likely remain dominant and we would like to have an innovative and competitive offering in this sector as well. The innovations in primecoin give us this opportunity, and would complement ppcoin to strengthen our strategic position in the market.
 
- For existing ppcoin users our dedication to the continued development of ppcoin and its market has not changed. ppcoin's advanced proof-of-stake technology has long-term advantage over pure proof-of-work designs, and is an innovative environmental-friendly solution to the escalating energy consumption on cryptocurrency. In my opinion the energy intensive sector will fragment into many different types of proof-of-work, a single type of proof-of-work is unlikely to maintain dominance. More fragmentation is likely even within a single type of proof-of-work. Meanwhile the energy efficient sector would rise to challege the energy intensive sector, and ppcoin is among the leading contenders in the energy efficient sector. So in terms of our long term strategy ppcoin is of more importance than primecoin.

[Excelsior]

Wow. You got to be kidding me. And I JUST posted the following post on bitcointalk JUST BEFORE discovering that Sunny launched another coin. Wow. Yeah, Sunny seems to be on top of things and knows what he's doing... but the reality is that ppcoin has tons of work needed and he launched a new coin. On face value this looks... insane. I'm looking forward to a sane explanation.



"Sunny, I see a conflict and am curious of your opinion. On one hand you, the lead developer of ppc, offer up your skills to other currencies to help overcome their problems, and on the other hand you ask the ppc community to step up and help ppc grow.

The problem is that people like me, who are only invested in ppc, become to some degree uncertain of your over-all commitment to ppc and the ability of ppc to keep developing at a healthy clip when you are openly willing to spend some of your limited time and energies on other currencies (when ppc itself always has needs to be addressed).

I know you speak of viewing and supporting the crypto movement as a whole, and I get that philosophically, but don't you think it's more important to give ppc all your focus to help ensure its success as the crypto with the best design? Or are you not convinced it has the best design?

As far as I can tell, you aren't concerned if speculators lose money (it's their risk) on any coin (including ppc) and really just want to see the whole movement grow and flourish. Is that right? And is that why you don't mind if investors are bothered when you help 'competing' currencies improve (even at the risk of it hurting ppc in the end)?

I know I'm not the only one concerned about this as I've seen others speak about it. I truly don't mean to offend you. I am, always, very impressed by you, your skills and macro-awareness in this field.

I just wanted to get some clarity and to let you know some investors are concerned by this if you didn't already know.

Thanks Sunny. Again, no offense at all. Just communicating."



Alright Sunny, my questions is:

What, in simplistic terms is the reason for you creating this new coin and how should investors like me in ppc need not worry in the slightest that this coin won't compete with ppc or hinder you in any way from further developing and guiding ppc's growth with great focus?

[Sentinelrv]

Wow. You got to be kidding me. And I JUST posted the following post on bitcointalk JUST BEFORE discovering that Sunny launched another coin. Wow. Yeah, Sunny seems to be on top of things and knows what he's doing... but the reality is that ppcoin has tons of work needed and he launched a new coin. On face value this looks... insane. I'm looking forward to a sane explanation.

Yeah, I'm concerned as well, but the highlighted parts in my post at least tell me partly what the purpose of the coin is and that the longer-term strategy is still in peercoin's favor. That put me at ease a little bit, but I would really like to know why this is so important. I'm also waiting for a easier to understand explanation from Sunny.

[Excelsior]

What is worrisome is that Sunny might be rich and just doing all this to stick it to the world banks/governments (and for the intellectual challenge) and doesn't care AT ALL that investors like you and me could lose a lot of money by investing in his 'experiments'.

Seriously. That scenario is very possible.



Tell me otherwise Sunny. Please.

[Sunny King]

Yes primecoin no doubt would consume more of my time than helping with other altcoin's problems. But most of the work from my side has already been completed in the last couple months. I would like to offer some more explanation to the purpose of this project.

The energy efficient market would take time to demonstrate its advantage, meanwhile there is strong shift in the proof-of-work side. Litecoin begins to challenge bitcoin's market.

Coinchoose has an excellent pie chart demonstrating the shift in mining market:

http://coinchoose.com/charts.php

In a few years that chart would have many different types of proof-of-work, bitcoin's mining share would be further reduced. This means the relative security against 51% attack is  going to be weakened for each pure proof-of-work cryptocurrency.

Primecoin may help speed up this process, taking a significant piece of mining market while attracting a larger user base to both primecoin and ppcoin. I believe it could strengthen our positioning against litecoin and other potential competitions.

Yes I know the risk involved and it pains me to make difficulty choices, especially causing additional uncertainties to our loyal supporters. Once the primecoin release settles, my focus would return to ppcoin development.

[Sentinelrv]

There have been many scam or clone proof of work coins released since Bitcoin's bubble. Why exactly do you think Primecoin would help speed up the dilution of Bitcoin's mining share more than the other coins that have been released so far? Is there something about Primecoin's design that would help speed things along more than the other coins? Not criticizing, just trying to understand your strategy here.

[sahkan]

Let's move the release date to the 17th, 7th does not fit my schedule....

[irritant]

In a few years that chart would have many different types of proof-of-work, bitcoin's mining share would be further reduced. This means the relative security against 51% attack is  going to be weakened for each pure proof-of-work cryptocurrency.

Primecoin may help speed up this process, taking a significant piece of mining market while attracting a larger user base to both primecoin and ppcoin. I believe it could strengthen our positioning against litecoin and other potential competitions.

I don't understand exactly how this will reduce bitcoin's mining share. It does not compete with bitcoin mining hardware, because it is different kind of PoW right (first only cpu, later maybe gpu, and who is still mining bitcoins with cpus) ?  (Same with Litecoin, they only eat away the gpu's of bitcoin's mining share because they use scrypt, but since there are asics.. ) 

I understand how it would reduce the 51% security if bitcoin miners switched to an alt coin, but not with different algorithm and first cpu only? I guess I must be missing something

[MeBeingAwesome]

After getting over the initial shock, I like this decision. This is a bold strategic move to gain market share of the existing demographic that favors PoW, which can then be transitioned to PPCoin in the future.

Primecoin will be analogous to Apple releasing the iPod (an mp3 player superior to other mp3 players at the time), but then blowing everyone out of the water with the iPhone (PPC) afterwards. Recognizing consumer behavior and innovation trends takes a lot of strategic foresight, and I'm happy Sunny has recognized this.

The one caveat I would have is that PPCoin still needs to be maintained/upgraded in parallel with Primecoin to ensure consumer trust. Many of us who support PPC do have financial stakes in it, and it would be unwise to simply put us on the shelf for the foreseeable future and abandon aggressive development. We're 3rd or 4th in market cap, and it's going to take continued efforts to gain on Litecoin.

I also think it's time for Sunny to recruit an expanded development team that can oversee the umbrella portfolio of the P coins...Prime and Peer. Apple has a portfolio of products (iPod, desktop computers, iPhones) with very siloed development, and I think that approach could work beautifully here. Dream big Sunny!

[Sunny King]

People tend to think about security in terms of hashrate, but in fact the real number to look at is mining income. That's why the coinchoose mining market share pie chart is important, indicating the shift in market since last year (bitcoin share dropped from 95% to 75%).

As bitcoin loses mining market share, the supporting hardware business (SHA-256 ASIC) would also lose speed of growth due to lack of money in it. Of course this is relative to each currency's market capitalization.

The hashrate doesn't need to drop for security to be lowered, because it's the cost of attack that's the measurement of security, and it's a relative comparison between the competing currencies. There are already people claiming litecoin is more secure than bitcoin. But there is a grain of truth in it, based on the mining market share, bitcoin is now only 3~4 times more secure and dropping.

I don't understand exactly how this will reduce bitcoin's mining share. It does not compete with bitcoin mining hardware, because it is different kind of PoW right (first only cpu, later maybe gpu, and who is still mining bitcoins with cpus) ?  (Same with Litecoin, they only eat away the gpu's of bitcoin's mining share because they use scrypt, but since there are asics.. ) 

I understand how it would reduce the 51% security if bitcoin miners switched to an alt coin, but not with different algorithm and first cpu only? I guess I must be missing something

[jubalix]

reserved

how does this help cpu mine that is against botnets which may be just directed at the coin

could I suggest a silent release of the complied qt client, to those who have over x amount of PPC or were registered on the PPC forum before a certain date,

this shows people who are at least dedicated to PPC/ your projects.

Eg the day after I purchased BTC I went around buying up PPC!, and have held them did not sell when going down (you can probably check by the minting time thing)

If i understand PrimeCoin may act as a bridge to PPC

but I don't understand it takeing the hash rate away from BTC idea, see the overall hash available is increasing, so even if the pie is smaller for BTC this does not make it more vulnerable, also with asics now rolling out and by far the majority of new coins being scrypt his is even less an issue though that could change when everything that produces heat mines as well

on that point, it maybe that all heating elements mine eventually kind of putting a floor under the energy usage as you were going to it anyway.

Imagine the amount of power a hot water element pulls, and could be directed at mining as well.

Would I like my hot water element to be making me btc or some otehr CC, why not!

[irritant]

"when everything that produces heat mines as well"

what are you talking about jubalix? Miners produce heat because they mine, they don't mine because they are hot, but I'm still in shock    so, should take a step back and let things sink in a bit 

[MUTO]

No it´s clear why progress on ppcoin is so slow currently. I think about selling my coins since I doubt one person could maintain two coins.